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21 Aug, 2019
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Talk:Trump Administration Family Separation Policy

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 August 2019 and 20 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Yazlor.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 August 2021 and 18 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sunflower0914.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is an example of extreme political bias on Wikipedia

POV pushing
Family separations on the border did occur under previous Presidents, therefor this article should not be named after Trump. The Zero Tolerance Policy had nothing to do with family separations, but was simply an confirmation that under the Trump administration those who break the law by entering the country illegally would be prosecuted according to the law. Trump has never had any specific “Family Separation Policy”. The increase in family separations on the border was a direct consequence of a court ruling on the Flores Settlement on July 6th, 2016, while Obama was President. Trump had no involvement in that decision. The family separations were a direct consequence of the 2016 court order on the Flores Settlement, that demanded that children be released while the "same should not be afforded" to their mother/parents. A court order that came while Obama was President. The Executive order that President Trump announced to end these family separations did NOT stop or alter his Zero Tolerance Policy at all(the Zero Tolerance Policy had nothing to do with the separations of families) but only requested that the Attorney General have the Flores Settlement altered(he ordered the AG to "promptly file a request with the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California to modify the Settlement Agreement in Flores v. Sessions, CV 85-4544 "Flores settlement", in a manner that would permit the Secretary, under present resource constraints, to detain alien families together throughout the pendency of criminal proceedings for improper entry or any removal or other immigration proceedings"). TheOriginalVegan (talk) 02:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply] Here is what Snopes has to say on the topic: “immigration experts and former Homeland Security officials agree that the rate of child separation under Obama is likely nowhere close to what has been seen under Trump. Criminal prosecution for improperly crossing into the United States was the exception under the Obama administration”. As per WP:SNOPES, they are generally reliable (I have only known them to be wrong once, about a saucy quote actually said in The Newlywed Game). Samboy (talk) 09:19, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply] The article mentions past presidents, the Flores settlement, Obama, and all the other things you mention. RS clearly say the ZT policy is related to the family separation. And the article is about Trump's separation policy. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:51, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply] There is no article on Obama's family separation policy, there is no article on George W. Bush's family separations policy. This article is repetition of pure political propaganda from left wing news sources and nothing else. Again, Trump has NEVER had any "family separation policy", there is not a single word about family separations in the Zero Tolerance Policy(which simply ordered that all who break the law by entering the country illegally, should be prosecuted according to the law, no exceptions), this article shouldn't exist. Repeating heavily biased political coverage from "reliable sources", that is not supported by any evidence or documentation should not be the basis for an entire article. TheOriginalVegan (talk) 17:01, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply] There was a policy in the Trump administration. indirectly claiming reliable sources are uniformly wrong and "left wing political propaganda" is not benefiting the article and simply a statement of your dogmatic view (WP:NOTFORUM). Between here and the veganism talk page, you are engaging in WP:TENDENTIOUS editing. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:40, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply] There is nothing tendentious with pointing out the facts. And the absolute fact is that Trump has never had any specific "Family Separation Policy". The increase in family separations on the border was a direct consequence of a court ruling on the Flores Settlement on July 6th, 2016, while Obama was President. Trump had no involvement in that decision. This article is biased, I am not. TheOriginalVegan (talk) 21:16, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply] References ^ https://apnews.com/26b88518310f47018b724e200b28e88f/Origins-of-family-separation-issue-stretch-back-many-years ^ https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-announces-zero-tolerance-policy-criminal-illegal-entry ^ https://www.aila.org/infonet/flores-v-reno-settlement-agreement

POV pushing

Family separations on the border did occur under previous Presidents, therefor this article should not be named after Trump.

The Zero Tolerance Policy had nothing to do with family separations, but was simply an confirmation that under the Trump administration those who break the law by entering the country illegally would be prosecuted according to the law. Trump has never had any specific “Family Separation Policy”.

The increase in family separations on the border was a direct consequence of a court ruling on the Flores Settlement on July 6th, 2016, while Obama was President. Trump had no involvement in that decision.

The family separations were a direct consequence of the 2016 court order on the Flores Settlement, that demanded that children be released while the "same should not be afforded" to their mother/parents. A court order that came while Obama was President. The Executive order that President Trump announced to end these family separations did NOT stop or alter his Zero Tolerance Policy at all(the Zero Tolerance Policy had nothing to do with the separations of families) but only requested that the Attorney General have the Flores Settlement altered(he ordered the AG to "promptly file a request with the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California to modify the Settlement Agreement in Flores v. Sessions, CV 85-4544 "Flores settlement", in a manner that would permit the Secretary, under present resource constraints, to detain alien families together throughout the pendency of criminal proceedings for improper entry or any removal or other immigration proceedings"). TheOriginalVegan (talk) 02:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here is what Snopes has to say on the topic: “immigration experts and former Homeland Security officials agree that the rate of child separation under Obama is likely nowhere close to what has been seen under Trump. Criminal prosecution for improperly crossing into the United States was the exception under the Obama administration”. As per WP:SNOPES, they are generally reliable (I have only known them to be wrong once, about a saucy quote actually said in The Newlywed Game). Samboy (talk) 09:19, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article mentions past presidents, the Flores settlement, Obama, and all the other things you mention. RS clearly say the ZT policy is related to the family separation. And the article is about Trump's separation policy. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:51, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is no article on Obama's family separation policy, there is no article on George W. Bush's family separations policy. This article is repetition of pure political propaganda from left wing news sources and nothing else. Again, Trump has NEVER had any "family separation policy", there is not a single word about family separations in the Zero Tolerance Policy(which simply ordered that all who break the law by entering the country illegally, should be prosecuted according to the law, no exceptions), this article shouldn't exist. Repeating heavily biased political coverage from "reliable sources", that is not supported by any evidence or documentation should not be the basis for an entire article. TheOriginalVegan (talk) 17:01, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There was a policy in the Trump administration. indirectly claiming reliable sources are uniformly wrong and "left wing political propaganda" is not benefiting the article and simply a statement of your dogmatic view (WP:NOTFORUM). Between here and the veganism talk page, you are engaging in WP:TENDENTIOUS editing. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:40, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing tendentious with pointing out the facts. And the absolute fact is that Trump has never had any specific "Family Separation Policy". The increase in family separations on the border was a direct consequence of a court ruling on the Flores Settlement on July 6th, 2016, while Obama was President. Trump had no involvement in that decision. This article is biased, I am not. TheOriginalVegan (talk) 21:16, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

New Source

Major article by the Atlantic on the history of the policy if someone wants to incorporate the information Atlantic article. Remember (talk) 12:47, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, what a good find. This will indeed provide good follow-up. I have read only the first chapter so far but will slowly go through it all. There is a lot to cover. I am user Gandydancer so have been with this article from its very beginning and rambling through month after month. And it does ramble, but trying to do cut-backs is so hard when when one thinks of those little kids wailing and crying out "papa" on that tape--it makes every word seem important... Reading farther back into the history of this practice in this Atlantic article reminds me that this WP article while now seemingly old remains an important part of U.S. politics and even what's going on around the world today. For now, Gandy Sectionworker (talk) 18:19, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I quickly lost my limits on Atlantic access and will need to find interviews, etc.--which should not be a problem. She was on PBS last night and several talk shows lately. This is one of the longest articles they've ever done and they tend to do pretty long ones. Rather than trying to tuck this in here and there I'm going to add it at the end in a 2022 update. Since so few people read or work on this article I'm going to feel free to add what I find a little at a time rather than feel that I need to have it all worked out before I add stuff. Gandy, Sectionworker (talk) 21:35, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

story won a 2023 Pulitzer Prize, btw. nice find. 162.83.150.120 (talk) 13:11, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Article contradiction

Hello! I'm worried about this paragraph, specifically the segments in bold, which, as I see it, contradict each other, so I'm about to change it, but in case anyone was wondering why, I wanted to put my reasoning here:

Prior to the Trump administration, the U.S. government did not actively pursue criminal cases for illegal entry, and thus U.S. authorities did not routinely separate migrant parents from their children. Rather, previous administrations used either family detention facilities (allowing families to remain intact pending deportation hearings in civil immigration court) or alternatives to detention (e.g., release pending further hearings). Prior to the Trump administration, families traveling together were generally only separated under narrow circumstances, such as suspicion of human trafficking, an outstanding warrant, or fraud.
President George W. Bush began the trend of a "zero tolerance" approach in 2005 with Operation Streamline, under which a significant number of criminal prosecutions for illegal entry (a misdemeanor) were pursued; however, during his administration, exceptions were generally made for adults traveling with minors.

To be clear: it's obviously true that the United States did not generally separate families prior to Trump, and the sources confirm that. But the first bolded portion speaks of all "criminal cases"—not just criminal cases against persons traveling with families, and, as I see it, the second bolded portion contradicts it.

Moreover, and more importantly, at least one of the sources used seems to contradict the first bolded portion. This AP article (which is cited) says:

For decades the government didn’t actively pursue criminal cases under Section 1325, which has been on the books since 1929. Those caught were deported by immigration enforcement.
It wasn’t until a 2005 program started by President George W. Bush, vowing to curb illegal immigration, that the number of criminal prosecutions soared.

--Jerome Frank Disciple 13:11, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New source on the state of reunification in 2024

Major new article in New York Magazine looking at reunification efforts:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/separated-families-border-trump-zero-tolerance-immigration.html

It includes lots of updated information that would be worth including in this article. Owunsch (talk) 03:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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