If you are considering a request for a deletion review, please read the "Purpose" section below to make sure that is what you wish to do. Then, follow the instructions below.

Before listing a review request, please:

1. Consider attempting to discuss the matter with the closer as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the closer the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision.
2. Check that it is not on the list of perennial requests. Repeated requests every time some new, tiny snippet appears on the web have a tendency to be counter-productive. It is almost always best to play the waiting game unless you can decisively overcome the issues identified at deletion.

If your request is completely non-controversial (e.g., restoring an article deleted with a PROD, restoring an image deleted for lack of adequate licensing information, asking that the history be emailed to you, etc), please use Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion instead.

{{subst:drv2
|page=File:Foo.png
|xfd_page=Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 February 19#Foo.png
|article=Foo
|reason=
}} ~~~~

Any editor may express their opinion about an article or file being considered for deletion review. In the deletion review discussion, please type one of the following opinions preceded by an asterisk (*) and surrounded by three apostrophes (''') on either side. If you have additional thoughts to share, you may type this after the opinion. Place four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your entry, which should be placed below the entries of any previous editors:

• Endorse the original closing decision; or
• Relist on the relevant deletion forum (usually Articles for deletion); or
• List, if the page was speedy deleted outside of the established criteria and you believe it needs a full discussion at the appropriate forum to decide if it should be deleted; or
• Overturn the original decision and optionally an (action) per the Guide to deletion. For a keep decision, the default action associated with overturning is delete and vice versa. If an editor desires some action other than the default, they should make this clear; or
• Allow recreation of the page if new information is presented and deemed sufficient to permit recreation.

Examples of opinions for an article that had been deleted:

• *'''Endorse''' The original closing decision looks like it was sound, no reason shown here to overturn it. ~~~~
• *'''Relist''' A new discussion at AfD should bring a more thorough discussion, given the new information shown here. ~~~~
• *'''Allow recreation''' The new information provided looks like it justifies recreation of the article from scratch if there is anyone willing to do the work. ~~~~
• *'''List''' Article was speedied without discussion, criteria given did not match the problem, full discussion at AfD looks warranted. ~~~~
• *'''Overturn and merge''' The article is a content fork, should have been merged into existing article on this topic rather than deleted. ~~~~
• *'''Overturn and userfy''' Needs more development in userspace before being published again, but the subject meets our notability criteria. ~~~~
• *'''Overturn''' Original deletion decision was not consistent with current policies. ~~~~

Remember that deletion review is not an opportunity to (re-)express your opinion on the content in question. It is an opportunity to correct errors in process (in the absence of significant new information), and thus the action specified should be the editor's feeling of the correct interpretation of the debate. Deletion review is facilitated by succinct discussions of policies and guidelines; long or repeated arguments are not generally helpful. Rather, editors should set out the key policies and guidelines supporting their preferred outcome.

The presentation of new information about the content should be prefaced by Relist, rather than Overturn and (action). This information can then be more fully evaluated in its proper deletion discussion forum. Allow recreation is an alternative in such cases.

Admins participating in deletion reviews are routinely requested to restore deleted pages under review and replace the content with the {{TempUndelete}} template, leaving the history for review by everyone. However, copyright violations and violations of the policy on biographies of living persons should not be restored.

A nominated page should remain on deletion review for at least seven days, unless the nomination was a proposed deletion. After seven days, an administrator will determine whether a consensus exists. If that consensus is to undelete, the admin should follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Administrator instructions. If the consensus was to relist, the page should be relisted at the appropriate forum. If the consensus was that the deletion was endorsed, the discussion should be closed with the consensus documented.

If the administrator closes the deletion review as no consensus, the outcome should generally be the same as if the decision was endorsed. However:

• If the decision under appeal was a speedy deletion, the page(s) in question should be restored, as it indicates the deletion was not uncontroversial. The closer, or any editor, may then proceed to nominate the page at the appropriate deletion discussion forum, if they so choose.
• If the decision under appeal was an XfD close, the closer may, at their discretion, relist the page(s) at the relevant XfD.

Ideally all closes should be made by an administrator to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal is applied consistently and fairly but in cases where the outcome is patently obvious or where a discussion has not been closed in good time it is permissible for a non-admin (ideally a DRV regular) to close discussions. Non-consensus closes should be avoided by non-admins unless they are absolutely unavoidable and the closer is sufficiently experienced at DRV to make that call. (Hint: if you are not sure that you have enough DRV experience then you don't.)

• Objections to a proposed deletion can be processed immediately as though they were a request at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion
• Where the closer of a deletion discussion realizes their close was wrong, and nobody has endorsed, the closer may speedily close as overturn. They should fully reverse their close, restoring any deleted pages if appropriate.
• Where the nominator of a DRV wishes to withdraw their nomination, and nobody else has recommended any outcome other than endorse, the nominator may speedily close as "endorse" (or ask someone else to do so on their behalf).
• Certain discussions may be closed without result if there is no prospect of success (e.g. disruptive or sockpuppet nominations, if the nominator is repeatedly nominating the same page, or the page is listed at WP:DEEPER). These will usually be marked as "administrative close".

Miyu Takahashi (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

This discussion was closed as draftify despite the fact that, as I pointed out in the discussion, Takahashi passed WP:NBADMINTON having finished on the podium of a BWF World Tour tournament [[Indonesia Masters Super 100 |stop]]. Since then, she has won the 2024 Vietnam Open (also part of the BWF World Tour, causing a red link). The !vote count in this discussion was 1 drafity along with my keep and a comment providing some additional sources.

Notably, Takahashi is competing alongside Mizuki Otake who was nominated for deletion alongside Takahashi. Star Mississippi closed that discussion as "no consensus" with 2 keeps and 1 delete. I don't think "draft" is necessarily a "wrong" outcome but with two BWF World Tour wins, the subject passes NBADMINTON and I would like to seek a consensus to undraftify this article. It is also odd that, of the two, more sources were identified for Takahashi yet her article is the one which is redlinked. DCsansei (talk) 23:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• You seem to be saying that factors have change since I closed the AfD. That does not require an overturn of the AfD. If you think she meets requirements now, improve the draft sufficiently that it won't be a G4 and move it to mainspace. Re-reading it, I could make a case for my having closed it as N/C but I read @JoelleJay:'s comment as explaining why yours wasn't quite the right reasoning. I don't see re-closing now as helpful when we have a different route back to mainspace, but would not object if others disagree. So endorse my own close, but support improvement and restoration since factors have changed. Star Mississippi 01:11, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse - The appellant is providing a mistaken vote count by neglecting the nomination. See Wikipedia:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_reviews#Incorrect_vote_counts. The nomination is assumed to be a Delete vote unless otherwise stated, so the count was 1 Delete, 1 Draftify, 1 Keep, and 1 Don't Know. Draftify was the best close. Since the page is in draft space, the appellant should improve the draft and resubmit it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert McClenon (talk • contribs) 05:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Endorse. Good close. Improve sourcing in draftspace and use AfC, mandatorily if within six months of the close of the AfD. SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no policy that suggests AFC is mandatory (outside of specific cases of COI or where the article is salted in mainspace), however I would strongly encourage this go through AFC as well (refer to my !vote below). Frank Anchor 13:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read the whole NSPORT guideline? Meeting the criteria in NBAD or any other sport is not sufficient to pass NSPORT: the subject must meet GNG, and an IRS source of SIGCOV must still be identified and cited in the article -- which is what I referenced in my !vote -- for us to even consider the likelihood of GNG sourcing existing. Coverage of high school-age athletes rarely passes WP:YOUNGATH, so any new sourcing will need to focus on her senior career. JoelleJay (talk) 09:33, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Endorse. There was a rough consensus to draftify.—Alalch E. 11:49, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse. Draftification was the correct, "minimally-invasive" outcome to that poorly attended AfD. As Robert McClenon points out, the appellant conveniently leaves out the nom's Delete !vote. The appellant doesn't need our permission to improve sourcing and submit the draft to AfC. Owen× ☎ 13:18, 29 October 2024 (UTC) (P.S.: I'm semi-involved as a relister on the AfD. Owen× ☎ 14:11, 29 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]
• Endorse Sport SNGs have been functionally deprecated, so simply meeting one does not guarantee a page will be kept. The correct thing to do to be able to publish this article is to demonstrate sources exist. SportingFlyer T·C 05:24, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse. SNGs related to sports only suggest presumed notability and have lost a lot of influence after consensus at WP:NSPORTS2022 was implemented. Draftification is an acceptable outcome for a low-attendance AFD (two delete/ATD including the nom statement that the appellant inadvertantly forgot to include vs. one keep). The history is still available for improvement. The best course of action for the appellant is to improve the draft to a point where it would pass an AFC submission. This is not a requirement but I would strongly encourage going through AFC to ensure a quality article and avoid a second AFD. Frank Anchor 13:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ivy Wolk (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

This is a purely WP:DRVPURPOSE#3 appeal. I am requesting that recreation of this article be allowed, as I have completed an AfC review of Draft:Ivy Wolk, and the submission has passed my review. I believe that the draft speaks for itself, that the included references demonstrate notability, and that it's a little too late to claim "too soon". Since the last time this was at DRV, an additional article was published: The Cut, October 25. —Alalch E. 02:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Allow recreation. I have no qualms about trusting Alalch's judgement on this. Owen× ☎ 08:08, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Unsalt. The new sourcing, although not outstanding, is a clear improvement on the sourcing discussed at the AfD, and so G4 is overcome.

This should not come so quick to DRV. The AfC review approving the draft should first go to the protecting admin and request unprotection. If the protecting admin is unresponsive, then go to WP:RFUP. Reserve DRV for appeals against a process failure or a dispute. There is no appeal here. DRV must not become a routine tickbox forum for recreation where the reasons for deletion are overcome.

-SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:27, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that DRV must not be the article creation committee. However, this is here for the second time, and in the previous DRV comments included: "keep salted", "leave salted", "retain salting", "If this were AFD again, I would say to Delete again. If this were AFC, I would Reject it", and "the draft is not ready for AFC at this point", so I had a feeling that it's more stable to rediscuss this, or rather, to continue the discussion, as the last one was closed early and is recent. But you definitely have a point. —Alalch E. 11:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 October 16. You should have linked that DRV. Both that DRV and this DRV are out of scope for DRV, and I disagree with much of your closing statement there.

If this were a proper DRV, both User:Explicit and User:Liz should be pinged, and you should be explaining what they should have done differently.

Another common mistake is people believing that DRV will offer the recreated article some protection. It doesn’t, if the draft is mainspaced, it may be immediately renominated at AfD. AfD is the right place to reevaluate the new sources, DRV is not a good forum for source analysis.

I believe that as there are multiple new sources, and an AfC reviewer has approved, the mainspace title should be speedily unsalted on request and the draft mainspaced, without serious source review or second guessing of the AfC reviewer. See if it gets AfDed, and see how the AfD plays out. I will watch, mainly because I think the sources are of dubious independence. SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let's say I agree. However, User:Cryptic said: It's already been G4'd twice and protected from recreation. This isn't just a DRV matter; there's no other place appropriate to discuss it. If someone explicitly said it was a DRV matter last time, the comments were majorly against recreation, which had been sought by an established editor, an NPP with autopatrolled (the nature of Hameltion appeal was the same as mine now), and responding editors weren't pleased with what they're being shown, would it really be ideal for this to be recreated based on what is objectively just one additional source, enabled by a purely formal unsalting from an AfC pass? There is a latent dispute around the eligibility of an article on this topic, and such actions did not feel like would have led to the stable point quicker than what I did with this DRV nom. —Alalch E. 12:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G4 is overcome. It’s worth a fresh AfD. DRV should not run reverse AfDs. SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:04, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G4 had also been overcome the last time this was at DRV and comments were as I have quoted them above. —Alalch E. 10:09, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Unsalt, which should be a formality after an accepted AFC of an article with new sourcing. Frank Anchor 12:15, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Unsalt, I'd even say speedily if not for the DRV earlier this month. I trust Alaich's judgement as AfC reviewer. Star Mississippi 01:15, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Unsalt and I specifically endorse DRV as an appropriate venue for this based on the prior DRVs and G4s. Jclemens (talk) 04:14, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Do you really mean that an AfC reviewer should not ask the admin who protected the title to unprotect, and that a salted title means that the question must come to DRV? SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:51, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It was already at DRV; coming back here is fine. Asking the admin in question would also be OK, as I said this would be "an" appropriate venue, not "the" appropriate venue. Jclemens (talk) 18:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This DRV is being used to reverse User:Liz’s SALT of the title. It is inappropriate that Liz was neither asked nor pinged.

  DRVPURPOSE needs fixing. SmokeyJoe (talk) 20:27, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If SmokeyJoe is referring to WP:DRVPURPOSE3, then I agree that it needs clarification. DRVPURPOSE3 is qualified by what DRV is not for, point 10: to ask for permission to write a new version of a page which was deleted, unless it has been protected against creation.. Most of our requests to recreate an article to add information or add sources involve articles that have not been salted, and the author can either submit a draft subject to AFC or create a new article subject either to G4 if nothing is new or to AFD. What is User:SmokeyJoe recommending? Should we take this discussion to the DRV talk page? Robert McClenon (talk) 00:34, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Liz participated last time this came up, commenting in part I wouldn't object to restoring this version of the article to Draft space so it can be reviewed by AFC. This is the standard procedure for putting an article back into main space after it has been deleted through an AFD but I'm guessing many editors do not know that this is the case. I see that as tacit permission for AFC to lead to unSALTing in precisely these circumstances. Liz has never struck me as an admin who would be opposed to this sort of an orderly, consensus-based unSALTing, but I'm pinging anyways because it doesn't look like anyone previously has on this thread, which appears to be an oversight shared amongst several of us. Jclemens (talk) 05:59, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Dunno what this fixation on pinging Liz is about. She doesn't respond to them (one such statement), and has gotten a talk page pointer here as usual. I seem to recall Explicit doesn't see pings either. —Cryptic 06:13, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Liz create-protected the title. Alalch wants it unprotected. Alalch doesn’t ask Liz to unprotect, but instead comes to DRV to have the create-protection reviewed and overturned. SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:39, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  What about the strong "keep salted" sentiment expressed in the last DRV, does it not count for anything? —Alalch E. 16:27, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I note some such sentiment. It is not binding. The most important facts are that an AfC reviewer (you) has accepted the draft, and that there are new sources that possibly have overcome the reasons for deletion, which were primarily a lack of GNG sources (my interpretation). It may be deleted again at AfD, but that is far from certain, and so I support it being mainspaced, and being freely AfD-ed by anyone at any time, without reference to or protection from these DRVs. The system here is working fine as it is, except how it has come needlessly to DRV twice. SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:51, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I would not have accepted this at AfC. There are seven sources. Three are tweets from the actor, one is a listicle, one is a mere mention of a character she's portraying, and two basically long-form interviews. I would have asked for an additional secondary source. SportingFlyer T·C 05:31, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Also I completely agree this is the correct forum for this, it's not as if we get a lot of requests like these here. SportingFlyer T·C 05:31, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  DRV not getting many requests like this is not a reason to welcome them. WP:RFUP gets requests like this. Most people know that an AfC accept is sufficient reason for a speedy UNSALT.

  DRV is not the right forum for second guessing AfC accepts. SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:44, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I also am not particularly impressed with the new sources, I think they are not independent significant coverage, none of them, but I am now sure that it will be deleted again at AfD, which means it should get another AfD. (And DRV is not an alternative for a fresh AfD). SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:41, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I agree with SportingFlyer that the sourcing on the draft still leaves quite a bit to be desired; the only new source since the last DRV is an interview with limited independent analysis. I don't have an issue with unsalting (which I think should generally be done pretty liberally), but I'd probably still be a delete !vote at AfD at the moment. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 10:46, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  And this is probably the way it should be. SALT is for persistent incompetent or bad-faith recreation. Unsalting should be a lower bar than being willing to !vote keep in an AfD. Jclemens (talk) 00:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree. SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]